A friend gave me a Denon DHT-T100 to look at.
Do not spend much time on it.. ok.
It had a problem, it started clicking and ticking after power on, and after some time.
(a so called intermittent problem)
Sometimes it did not tick or click, but it was basically not usable.
The clicking had a sharp click in one channel and repeated after about a second, then sound recovered and it would click and drop out again.
He told me, do not spend any time on it, yeah, right. ;-) like I would give up after 15 minutes.
I wanted to know what was going on with this thing, I found some schematic online and started measuring the usual things.
The power supply, 24V did it drop down when a tick occurred ? Difficult to find out because sometimes the thing would play for hours without a glitch.
I eventually found out the 24 V PSU, the step down SMPS on board and the LDO's were all ok, all power rails remained within spec, but it still glitched sometimes. (while power was ok)
I investigated methodically, did it occur just with the blue tooth or also with the cable? Both ..
Was it digital or analog? Was the DSP restarting? All these things were ruled out eventually.
I finally found the a signal changing during the glitch.. it was the FAULTZ signal on both the power amplifiers (class D, TPA3118)
The signal is bi-directional, you can pull it low to disable the power amplifier, and it gets pulled down by the amplifier when a short, over-temp, over-voltage, under-voltage etc occurs. It is also connected to a reset circuit.
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tpa3118d2.pdf
The 3 pin reset IC was finally ruled out as the culprit. (U28 was not bad)
To make a long story shorter, one power amp was detecting a failure and taking the other one down too.
I ordered a new TPA3118 and spent some hours soldering it, it has a heat-sink on the bottom and access to the pins is hindered by big caps, it was a struggle, but it got done.
The de-soldering of the thermal pad on the underside was not easy, but with a 40 Watt big iron it finally worked.
I powered up the thing again and expected success, but was greeted by the same clicks as before.
I really had a WTF moment, you can be sure. ;-(
I had to change my plan, I knew the problem was probably thermally triggered so I took my soldering-heat-gun and turned it all the way down to 100 deg C. A very small nozzle on it, to point at potential problem components.
I pointed at specific points on the PCB to find the location of the fault and after some trial and error found 2 small capacitors that resulted in ticking/glitching very quickly.
These were the DC blocking capacitors between the TL074 analog filter and the input of the TPA3118.
I measured the capacitance, 10 uF all fine, the voltage over the caps (DC was about 9.2 Volt) and looked this all up in the schematic.
It seemed to make some sense, if the capacitors would briefly short and recover the power amp would trip into FAULTZ and recover.
Looking at the schematic I noticed the caps are specified as 6.3 Volt caps, but there is a 9.2 Volt DC on them, no wonder these things go bad! If interested, please google 'failure modes of MLCC capacitors' to learn more than you ever wanted to know about the problems with these caps.
The datasheet says the DC level at the inputs is biased to 3 Volt from ground.
I checked the schematic, the 'virtual ground' of the TL074 chips is at about 12 Volt, so 12 -3 is about 9 volt DC over the blocking caps.
My conclusion : bad specification, the blocking caps should be 25 volt or higher.
This is a design FAIL FAIL FAIL.
During startup the spikes on these caps will be about the full 24 Volt of the power supply.
If the capacitors are really just 6.3 Volt as the schematic suggests, then all these DHT T100 sound bars will break down very quickly.
What you need to do is replace caps C126, C138, C154, C160, C171, C184, C199, C210 with higher voltage ones.
Also, the caps are 10 uF and the reference design by TI specifies 1 uF, the 10 uF brings the high pass filter's corner frequency down to 1.6 Hz, which is just plain nonsense. Better use a 1 uF cap of 50 Volt than a 10 uF cap of 6.3 Volt. It sounds just the same but does not break down within 2 years.
I replaced the caps with some 25 volt ones of 4.7 uF I had in stock.
Powered up. Problem is gone now.
I can heat it up, cool it down whatever, it is really gone.
So if you ever have no-sound or clicks/ticks/glitches take a look at the DC blocking caps.
I spent a lot of time to find this problem, but I get a good feeling that I cracked this one!
Hope this helps you in repairing your system.
If you have no experience with electronics then this is not something you can fix, please ask someone with soldering experience. I also take no responsibility for things you do or accidents you make.
(This is the broadest possible legal disclaimer you can think of)
Good luck and happy tinkering.
Edwin (Oetel-x)
Do not spend much time on it.. ok.
It had a problem, it started clicking and ticking after power on, and after some time.
(a so called intermittent problem)
Sometimes it did not tick or click, but it was basically not usable.
The clicking had a sharp click in one channel and repeated after about a second, then sound recovered and it would click and drop out again.
He told me, do not spend any time on it, yeah, right. ;-) like I would give up after 15 minutes.
I wanted to know what was going on with this thing, I found some schematic online and started measuring the usual things.
The power supply, 24V did it drop down when a tick occurred ? Difficult to find out because sometimes the thing would play for hours without a glitch.
I eventually found out the 24 V PSU, the step down SMPS on board and the LDO's were all ok, all power rails remained within spec, but it still glitched sometimes. (while power was ok)
I investigated methodically, did it occur just with the blue tooth or also with the cable? Both ..
Was it digital or analog? Was the DSP restarting? All these things were ruled out eventually.
I finally found the a signal changing during the glitch.. it was the FAULTZ signal on both the power amplifiers (class D, TPA3118)
The signal is bi-directional, you can pull it low to disable the power amplifier, and it gets pulled down by the amplifier when a short, over-temp, over-voltage, under-voltage etc occurs. It is also connected to a reset circuit.
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tpa3118d2.pdf
The 3 pin reset IC was finally ruled out as the culprit. (U28 was not bad)
To make a long story shorter, one power amp was detecting a failure and taking the other one down too.
I ordered a new TPA3118 and spent some hours soldering it, it has a heat-sink on the bottom and access to the pins is hindered by big caps, it was a struggle, but it got done.
The de-soldering of the thermal pad on the underside was not easy, but with a 40 Watt big iron it finally worked.
I powered up the thing again and expected success, but was greeted by the same clicks as before.
I really had a WTF moment, you can be sure. ;-(
I had to change my plan, I knew the problem was probably thermally triggered so I took my soldering-heat-gun and turned it all the way down to 100 deg C. A very small nozzle on it, to point at potential problem components.
I pointed at specific points on the PCB to find the location of the fault and after some trial and error found 2 small capacitors that resulted in ticking/glitching very quickly.
These were the DC blocking capacitors between the TL074 analog filter and the input of the TPA3118.
I measured the capacitance, 10 uF all fine, the voltage over the caps (DC was about 9.2 Volt) and looked this all up in the schematic.
It seemed to make some sense, if the capacitors would briefly short and recover the power amp would trip into FAULTZ and recover.
Looking at the schematic I noticed the caps are specified as 6.3 Volt caps, but there is a 9.2 Volt DC on them, no wonder these things go bad! If interested, please google 'failure modes of MLCC capacitors' to learn more than you ever wanted to know about the problems with these caps.
The datasheet says the DC level at the inputs is biased to 3 Volt from ground.
I checked the schematic, the 'virtual ground' of the TL074 chips is at about 12 Volt, so 12 -3 is about 9 volt DC over the blocking caps.
My conclusion : bad specification, the blocking caps should be 25 volt or higher.
This is a design FAIL FAIL FAIL.
During startup the spikes on these caps will be about the full 24 Volt of the power supply.
If the capacitors are really just 6.3 Volt as the schematic suggests, then all these DHT T100 sound bars will break down very quickly.
What you need to do is replace caps C126, C138, C154, C160, C171, C184, C199, C210 with higher voltage ones.
Also, the caps are 10 uF and the reference design by TI specifies 1 uF, the 10 uF brings the high pass filter's corner frequency down to 1.6 Hz, which is just plain nonsense. Better use a 1 uF cap of 50 Volt than a 10 uF cap of 6.3 Volt. It sounds just the same but does not break down within 2 years.
I replaced the caps with some 25 volt ones of 4.7 uF I had in stock.
Powered up. Problem is gone now.
I can heat it up, cool it down whatever, it is really gone.
So if you ever have no-sound or clicks/ticks/glitches take a look at the DC blocking caps.
I spent a lot of time to find this problem, but I get a good feeling that I cracked this one!
Hope this helps you in repairing your system.
If you have no experience with electronics then this is not something you can fix, please ask someone with soldering experience. I also take no responsibility for things you do or accidents you make.
(This is the broadest possible legal disclaimer you can think of)
Good luck and happy tinkering.
Edwin (Oetel-x)
Reacties
Just use any MLCC cap 16V or higher, 1uF or bigger. You will be OK.
Thanks again
To my surprise it now works fine so I am really pleased.
I would never have found the fault without this blog so i am really grateful for the help and the info.
Looking at the pictures of the circuit boards, this capacitors are very, very small.
My experience is from the years 60-70 with big capacitors.
How to disassemble this capacitors?
By the way, your name looks very Dutch.
Greetings, Rob Willemsen (70+)
Yes I am Dutch, living close to Eindhoven. The capacitors are 0805 size MLCC. These things are best handled with ceramic tweezers and a heat gun. If you are bold, you might use a normal soldering iron with a wide blade, but it takes practice. Good luck.
Mijn elco's zijn nog "ouderwets" groot blauw.
Het type, welke ik op de foto's zie, nog nooit mee gewerkt.
IK zal in Amsterdam bij enige elektronica zaken eens te rade gaan. (Ik stam nog uit het buizen tijdperk).
Thank you so much, your work is appreciated.
Thanks, Graeme
Don't you just love the Web, guidance on such an esoteric problem so expertly detailed.
We have a hot air resoldering tool at work and if we don't stock a suitable cap I will be amazed.
Thanks to you Edwin, nerds on the world unite. Clive
Symptoms were clicking after some time and then also hissing and sound loss for like 1/2 a second, then on again, repeat.
Replaced with 1µF 0805 50V - although the ones Denon used are quite slim, so it is a bit tricky to fit regular ones.
Use your ohm meter to check after soldering: one side has zero contact between the two caps (C171 and C184 for example), the other should have about 80 ohms.
I hot air soldered with a lot of flux paste and the original solder needed up to 350°C to get lose.
After some time they seem to recover. (or fail intermittently)
Also when this has been done, use a signal tracker, insert some sine wave at input and follow it to the power amplifier.
This will prevent un-needed work,
I made the mistake of changing the power-amps before understanding the real problem.
Waste of time, parts and energy.
Try to analyze the situation before exchanging difficult parts.
Good luck with your adventure.
Very scary soldering though as I had never done SMD before and the components are packed in close together on the board. Its not pretty but there was no smoke!
Thanks for the fix Edwin.
from yesterday my DHT-T100 doesn't sound anymore.
Power is on, but no sound.
Should this repair work?
I have replaced D2 IC but still no sound. From bluetooth there is digital audio signal but its impossible to set volume.
Finally result, there is corrupted firmware.
Please can someone share dump from external eeprom or D&M Group Soundbar Flash programmer and firmware? Thanks.
I have replaced D2 audio IC but without success.No pwm output from D2 IC to amplifier. Final result there are corrupted data in external flash because control is working and there is digital audio on input from BT or AUX via AD converter.
Can someone share dump from external eeprom or D&M Group Soundbar Flash Programmer?
Replaced the caps with 50V 1uF one's and the sound is good again.